tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-652950132925204088.post3441251746396283955..comments2024-03-25T17:34:35.600+11:00Comments on Sarah Stewart: CCK08: Chaos is good!Sarah Stewarthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00480597227427423793noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-652950132925204088.post-82245522782231150492008-10-01T04:35:00.000+10:002008-10-01T04:35:00.000+10:00I have been thinking about this, David, in relatio...I have been thinking about this, David, in relation to my undergrad midwifery students. There is so much information that would be 'given' to students. I think it is the processing, integration and application that would happen in a connectivist way.Sarah Stewarthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00480597227427423793noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-652950132925204088.post-38725030738327123492008-09-30T18:49:00.000+10:002008-09-30T18:49:00.000+10:00Thanks for your descriptions of Connectivism. I'v...Thanks for your descriptions of Connectivism. I've been wondering what it's all about, and you've given me a nice intro. I feel that I've got some kind of handle on it now.<BR/><BR/><B> Re: the chaos vs. structure debate </B><BR/>I agree with the concerns you have Sarah about overwhelming learners. We've both done enough online courses to recognise that this frequently seems to occur. I think that any online course really needs some technical help/scaffolding/support associated with it to help users gain familiarity with the technical skills required to navigate through the online environment. I also think that more structured learning is required at lower levels of study. A level 4 course needs quite a bit of structure to the learning, whereas a level 7+ course could probably be a good fit with what you're describing here. Horses for courses as always. <BR/>(btw. Thanks Sue for your perspective on this)David McQuillanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11631016980155581091noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-652950132925204088.post-26111413850523089672008-09-29T04:12:00.000+10:002008-09-29T04:12:00.000+10:00Thanks for your comments, Arielon, which got me th...Thanks for your comments, Arielon, which got me thinking. I'm not a theorist, as I have already said, so am soaking up all this new knowledge & having lots of 'aha' moments along the way.<BR/><BR/>I've sorted out the 'chaos' so I can now see order for myself, so I would agree about 'method in madness'. But what about the people who never get to that point? What if the 'chaos' impedes their learning?<BR/><BR/>As for internal construction of knowledge, I am not sure if I agree but at this minute, I can't articulate a credible response - will have to get back to you on that. I am just thinking about what I am learning about reflection and wondering how that relates to connectivism.Sarah Stewarthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00480597227427423793noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-652950132925204088.post-51618360712217271502008-09-28T17:15:00.000+10:002008-09-28T17:15:00.000+10:00...errr that last line of my previous post should ......errr that last line of my previous post should be "weren't chaotic at all." :) <BR/><BR/>And while I'm here again I may as well mention that Iwould disagree that the learner "constructs" his own knowledge (if that is meant as intentional construction). Or even that it's the teacher who provides the real life examples beyond simple analogy. I think the point of Connectivism is like static electricity. Learning takes place when a connection results in new information "clinging" to the learner to be processed into knowledge but as "ah ha" moments and unintentional many times. The teacher's job is to make his info more attractive.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-652950132925204088.post-88159395713592637442008-09-28T17:02:00.000+10:002008-09-28T17:02:00.000+10:00Hello SarahI really enjoyed your post. I would sug...Hello Sarah<BR/><BR/>I really enjoyed your post. I would suggest, though that what is thought of as "chaos" really isn't at all; that there is "method in the (apparent) madness that we just don't see yet but which, as George Siemans says, we will ("happily") deal with later. Humanity always seeks connection, logic and clarity. When faced with a sky full of apparently random stars we string them together in the Cosmos and give them names like "Big Dipper" or "Orion", or are even "cheeky" enough to "sell" them on Ebay to someone else to name. :). It's only later, when we have "connected the dots" in our heads with more information. processed into more knowledge, that we can see the design that was there, the science, chemical, etc. bonds and processes that wren'tchaoyicat all once we see the "big picture."dtAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-652950132925204088.post-62464053387048184022008-09-28T12:55:00.000+10:002008-09-28T12:55:00.000+10:00Hi Sara and Sue!I loved your KISS description, I l...Hi Sara and Sue!<BR/>I loved your KISS description, I like it, good idea :-)<BR/><BR/>Thanks Sara for introducing me to the Facilitating Online Communities course, pity that it has gone too far for me to catch up; besides, two courses like CCK08may be too much to handle, I need to have more experience with online tools, I will be looking out for the next one.<BR/><BR/>Your phrase "sort myself out" describes very accuratelly the process I went through during the first weeks of the course. I had taken online courses before but as the subject was more tangible the confussion was less.<BR/><BR/>See you around. Love: MaruMaru del Campohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02630120908803993968noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-652950132925204088.post-86713850589400681122008-09-28T11:35:00.000+10:002008-09-28T11:35:00.000+10:00And there I was thinking you were talking about an...And there I was thinking you were talking about an old 80s rock band, Sue!<BR/><BR/>A great motto for me Sue, because I must admit I do get carried away some times and forget that a lot of people do not have the same computer skills as I do. I should have KISS tattooed somewhere prominent :)Sarah Stewarthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00480597227427423793noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-652950132925204088.post-87187090759923955102008-09-28T11:26:00.000+10:002008-09-28T11:26:00.000+10:00KISS means Keep It Simple Stupid :) . But it oft...KISS means Keep It Simple Stupid :) . But it often is chaos if you don't build in mechanism to ensure it isn't. <BR/><BR/>Start by thinking about what you are trying to achieve and the technology skills of your participants. With our current challenge we are working with young students. What we are trying to do includes inspire them, improve their blogging and reflective writing skills, move them towards self learning, collaborating with each other globally. <BR/><BR/>We need to keep it simple since they are young and most have just started out. Key to me should be simple instructions on what's involved and provide systems to make it really easy to connect. So all tasks are coming from Miss Wyatt's blog, we have a participants page on her blog broken into categories based on their location and we are trying to encourage them to connect with other students. We will continue to build activities that encourages this connection. Both Sue and I've spent a lot of time this week visiting student blogging and writing comments; so that we are modeling the process.<BR/><BR/>I've just set up an aquaculture blog for my remote students. Skills levels are different again; so in this case I'm encouraging them to subscribe by Feedburner email; click email me when they post comments and respond to their learnings in the comment area.<BR/><BR/>There sheer number of people doing the connectivism course means it wouldn't be easy to aid with these connections.Sue Watershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13230898483382609377noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-652950132925204088.post-50626291582405071742008-09-28T09:40:00.000+10:002008-09-28T09:40:00.000+10:00What's the KISS principle, Sue?Actually, since wri...What's the KISS principle, Sue?<BR/><BR/>Actually, since writing this post, Sue, I have just come across another comment by Siemens that slightly contradicts what he says about chaos: <A HREF="http://cck08.wordpress.com/2008/09/16/a-course-utilizing-connectivism-principles/" REL="nofollow">he recommends</A> that you are careful about tools & don't overwhelm students with too many. This comment interested me because I have to wonder how people in the connectivism course are doing who have limited technological ability & knowledge. I wonder if things are too chaotic for them. <BR/><BR/>But, having said all that, I use the word 'chaos' loosely and admit I know nothing about chaos theory so I am hoping I am not using the term inappropriately.Sarah Stewarthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00480597227427423793noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-652950132925204088.post-17660530568583381572008-09-28T09:27:00.000+10:002008-09-28T09:27:00.000+10:00Well I don't believe it has to be chaos. You can s...Well I don't believe it has to be chaos. You can still use open learning but put systems in place so it doesn't overwhelm the participants. KISS principle.Sue Watershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13230898483382609377noreply@blogger.com